The "PEA" (Paramedical Examiners Anonymous)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:43 pm 
If any of you receive a request from Mike Boitel representing a company by the name of BIOSTAT...beware, beware, beware. Mike is well known for having you complete services and not pay you for your work. His company is based in Cincinnatti Ohio. If he contacts you to complete exams for him......RUN.....RUN VERY FAST!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:14 am 
I second that!!!! Mike Boitel is a sleeze- pays very slow when he does pay-always has a lame excuse for this. Then he just doesn't pay for exams already completed if he's having a "tight " month. If one figures how many examiners he screws out of a couple of exams before the examiner tells him to go pound salt, Mike Boitel has a nice little business going there- He needs to be turned in for this but unfortunately, as independent contractors, we have no recourse!! DON'T DO WORK FOR MIKE BOITEL/ BIOSTAT EXAMS !!!


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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:18 am 
thanks so much for letting us know


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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:33 am 
nice :D

thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of BIOSTAT
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:25 am 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 12:01 am
Posts: 3
What a farce. I'm quite sure BIOSTAT wouldn't have continued to flourish 2 decades without the relationships Mike and his examiners have forged. I've worked with Mike on and off since 1997 and there isn't a more loyal or higher paying CO out there. When my primary job downsized, he brought me back even though he had overlapping examiners in my area. I've also known him to do the same with examiners who've had to quit temporarily due to health reasons. As with any industry, there will always be detractors (AKA contractors who've been let go due to shoddy work). "Zipper" is undoubtedly one of those few examiner wannabes who apparently carries a schoolgirl grudge for being dropped!


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:31 am 
thanks for your opinion parapro but this is not the 1st time i've heard negative things about him/them.

we all have to draw our own conclusions but i appreciate the info from both sides.

there are far too many who have been able to screw examiners left and right because no one steps up to say anything.

forwarned is forarmed


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:32 pm 
I have worked with MIke (BIOSTAT) for at least 10 years and have a great relationship working with him. He always always pays and very well!!! I transfer work to him and he to me....
Yes there were posts about him a while ago and they werent true either and that was proven.
Dont believe everythign you read. I have been in business for 17 years and would work with him long before and after alot of companies


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:31 pm 
what exactly was "proven"?


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:08 pm 
Parapro suggest that "Zipper" is undoubtedly one of those few examiner wannabes who apparently carries a schoolgirl grudge for being dropped!"

i suggest that Parapro and other doubters review the post below to get a real idea of the mind set of Biostat/Mike Biotel. The below rant is is from July 2007. An examiner claiming to have had a pay dispute with Mike, shared the email below with members of the MSN Paramedical Examiners website.


MIKE BOITEL/ BIOSTAT IS A SCAM ARTIST OF THE FIRST ORDER....BEWARE HE WILL NOT PAY FOR EXAMS THAT YOU COMPLETE FOR HIM.....IF YOU COMPLETE WORK FOR HIM BE WARNED YOU WILL NOT BE COMPENSATED




I FORGET NOTHING.....GOD IS 1000% BEHIND ME WHORE!!!!!! I WON'T NEED TO WIELD WEAPONS AGAINST YOUR IGNORANT AND WEAK FLESH, BUT IT'S ALWAYS VERY FULFULLING TO THE SOUL TO IMPLEMENT THEM. YOU MADE A GRAVE ERROR IN JUDGEMENT AND IN DUE TIME YOU WILL REGRET YOU COMPROMISED YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY. THEY ARE YOUR DAMNED OFFSPRING AND SUBJECT TO DAMNATION. YOUR FAMILY WILL NEED MORE THAN GOD IN THE DAYS TO COME. PRIDE IS A DEADLY SIN AND YOUR SIN WILL BE AVENGED ON EARTH AND IN HELL AS I AM HIS HANDS ON EARTH. NO MORE PETTY WORDS. TIME FOR ACTION!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Gwendolyn Watson
To: Mike Boitel
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: CORRECTION/ BIOSTAT EXAM / Million, Larry - ID# 4205

You are forgetting that God is bigger than you. You should be very afraid. I am not so ignorant to wrestle against flesh and blood. No weapon formed against me shall prosper, any tounge that rises against me shall be silenced.



Mike Boitel <biostat@current.net> wrote:
I don't know what you've been smoking but I have the facts 100% correct and you were the worst examiner I've ever come across in the 20 yrs I've been in business!!!! Keep doing research bitch....I haven't needed to keep the name protected with the SOS. It costs $10 to protect the name from anyone using it only in the State. I'm national so it's immaterial AND I'm far too successful AND UNTOUCHABLE to protect it.

You're such a joke!!! I haven't lost shit you f^^k whore but you will continue to lose long after you forget about me.....though ONLY I know that won't be soon! Greed????? For a lousy 100 bucks?!!!!! $$$ has nothing to do with this!!!!!!!!!!!! I wipe my ass with 100 bucks!!! I am fining you the total to make an example of the Appalacian whore that you are.....only 10 fold!! I really hope you are going to make this interesting for me because I live for this shit!!! If you think a single man with no kids, 18 yrs military, expert in firearms, martial arts/weopons and works out daily is a guy to f^^k with...you're in for the awakening of your short life. Your husband is going to beg you to stop your shit when he learns of me....but I'm counting on you keep it up so I can fulfill my NEED FOR

I WILL BEAT YOU AT ANY GAME YOU WANT TO PLAY BITCH AND WILL EVEN GIVE YOU THIS TO TAKE TO YOUR LOCAL AUTHORITIES. BELIEVE ME, YOU NEED TO DO THIS THE MINUTE IT ARRIVES. NOW TAKE YOUR SLUTTY FAT WHORE ASS DOWN TO THE STATION NOW BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:47 pm 
WOW! That's a sick and evil man! After reading that rant I'm speechless. Don't play with fire this man is truly SICK.
Thanks again for the warning.


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:51 pm 
Unfortunatly there are alot of mangers and owners that are like that but not to that extreme. This guy was stupid enough to leave a email with the evidence.


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:19 pm 
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: CRAZY

Wow is all I can say.

I do agree with the post above, I think a lot of managers have power trips going on.

Some are good and from this post some are CRAZY. lol


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:42 pm 
I have completed work for Mike Boitel in Cleveland Ohio. He frequently pays late, with a long song and dance as to why he's paying late. On occassion his late payment is in the form of a personal check or money order (should have been my clue that there were problems) instead of business/ company check. His grand finale was to stiff me on payment for two exams. I took him to small claims court, won the judgement because he no showed, but couldn't collect because he filed bankruptcy. Recently I was told that all of his assets are in someone elses name. I'll never work for him again. BIOSTAT IS A EXAMINERS NIGHTMARE!!!


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:35 pm 
This is scary an unbeleiveable. I would have contacted the authorities. Threatening behavior


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:07 pm 
I remember that from the other board but can't recall the outcome.
Those are certainly threats and hopefully they were taken to the authorities.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:06 pm 
This guy is bad news. :evil: I just moved to Cincinnatti area and I won't be doing any of his exams. Thanks for the heads up.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:39 am 
:twisted:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:26 pm 
:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:58 pm 
:? :D :) :twisted: :evil: :cry:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:41 am 
I did an exam for Mike 2 years ago and have not received payment. Just excuses.
RIPOFF


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:39 pm 
:shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:57 pm 
darla007 wrote:
I did an exam for Mike 2 years ago and have not received payment. Just excuses.
RIPOFF

:mrgreen: :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:57 pm 
:ugeek:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:04 am 
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:34 pm 
:evil: :twisted: :ugeek:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:30 pm 
:evil: :evil:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:14 am 
:evil: :evil: :evil:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:25 pm 
:ugeek: :mrgreen: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:45 am 
Mike Boitel is a sociopath.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:34 pm
Posts: 8
I don't know the man but I can assure you if he was as bad as you claim he wouldn't still be in business.

As for not being paid in a timely manner, that's your own fault. When you sign a contract one of the things you should do is agree to payment terms. Payment within 30 days of the work being accomplished and received by the company is not out of the question and standard among lots of contracting companies. Delays tend to be because of clerical errors by the contracted that need to be verified before payment is made.

As to not being paid for work performed 2 years ago, If true? Fool to you for allowing it to go that long, ever hear of a small claims court!

_________________

Confucius say Butterfly in Hand
is worth 2 Needles in Arm


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:30 pm 
Santana is obviously anti-examiner. I would hate to have any working relationship with you.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:02 pm 
Small claims court?? Probably would cost more than the exam. Not worth it.
What can you do, probably nothing but get the word out, which looks as though is happening.
I would not trust him, anymore for work, nor should anyone else.
If he needs examiners and no one will accept his work, that will hit him where it hurts most.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:32 pm 
Santana (aka mike boitel) no one is fooled by you


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:14 pm 
you people need to grow up. santana's only crime is telling it like it is and not sugar coating it when s/he does. i'm an examiner but that doesn't mean i have to side with other examiners on every issue or opinion. i don't believe every examiner is always in the right. if you can't deal with criticism, take your toys and go home.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:18 am 
Any with a few brain cells can figure out that Santana is not a examiner.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:51 pm 
Quote:
Any with a few brain cells can figure out that Santana is not a examiner.
i assume you meant to write "anyone" when referring to the number of brain cells needed to perform that little bit of deductive reasoning. are you qualified to do it based on your inability to form a proper sentence?

and who gives a shit whether someone is an examiner or not? it comes across as being petty and childish when you write "oh, you must be so and so" because someone says or does something you find disagreeable. whatever your hard-on is with santana, get over it and act like an adult.

i'm embarrassed to call myself an examiner when i see this kind of bullshit.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:33 pm 
Quote:
Any with a few brain cells can figure out that Santana is not a examiner


Actually, the use of "any" and the sentence is correct, if a bit old-fashioned and stilted in today's modern use of the language. (minored in journalism, back in the day)

Many who visit this board are not examiners. I think exception is taken to individuals who claim to be examiners and who are not, or those who call themselvesthemselves examiners because they do an occasional exam but actually manage a PC or own a PC franchise and have others doing the majority of the exam work.

Personally, I enjoy reading the views of all who want to discuss paramedical exam concerns, but I become annoyed at those who misrepresent themselves.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:03 am 
i knew that but i doubt the writer used it intentionally and it helped make the point.

i don't like people misrepresenting themselves either but even a PC owner who does an "occasional" exam is still an examiner. i have a problem with people labeling someone as a PC whenever they don't like what a person has to say so they can use the "us against them" mentality to try to invalidate everything a person says. that's just as much of a misrepresentation as the other and it's childish.

and, just to have it said, does being a PC automatically mean your comments have no merit? i don't like the big 4 anymore than the next person but it's narrow minded to assume PCs are always wrong and examiners are always right. loyalty to our peers is great as long as we don't approach it from a blood is thicker than water perspective.

there are plenty of examiners who do lousy work. should we just ignore that because they are one of us?

i don't and i won't.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:41 pm 
does being a PC automatically mean your comments have no merit?

Absolutely not! We can all learn from one another here. I think some PC managers and franchise owners masquerade here as examiners because they are reluctant to reveal themselves as PCs. And personally I think that is a shame. I hold no animosity toward PCs (unlike many on this board whose bread and butter is dependant on them and never have a good word to say about them) I have stated before that I have a mix of contract work from PCs and directs from agents and that works for me. It is up to me to work out the best deal I can with each PC, and that is what I do. (on the planet I come from that is filed under "taking responsability")

I wish more representatives of PCs would identify themselves so that we could ask some questions and get some feedback besides vitriolic spewing from imposters who have nothing but put-downs for examiners.

Trouble is, there are so many examiners on this board who write nothing but profanity, whining and griping about the PCs that why should an individual who is interested in us examiners identify themselves as a PC, CSR, or manager and open themselves up to abuse?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:56 pm 
What was your technique in negotiating such great rates? Please help me "take responsibility" for myself!

I contract and do direct also, I get along with the PC's I contract with and welcome everyone's opinions here.
When I have ever talked about pay all I hear is faint chuckles form the other end of the phone. Most examiners do not have the opportunity to negotiate pay regardless of what PC's would like everyone to think. Their motto if you won't do it for free we can find someone that will :x

I was looking over a contract I signed not to long ago, in order to continue contracting with this PC I had to sign it there was no choice.In this contract there was wording explaining that if a PE takes a loss the PC would not be responsible, so alouugh you were able to work some vodoo magic when negotiating your rates, it is not the norm for most examiners and this type of wording in their contracts proves it. While your in LA LA land with the great rates you some how negotiated remember your fellow examiners are getting bent over! This will affect you hopefully sooner then later.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:09 pm 
Guest wrote:
you people need to grow up. santana's only crime is telling it like it is and not sugar coating it when s/he does. i'm an examiner but that doesn't mean i have to side with other examiners on every issue or opinion. i don't believe every examiner is always in the right. if you can't deal with criticism, take your toys and go home.

Yes, all examiners are always right about every issue!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:50 pm 
You negotiate rates with PCs before you sign the contract, that's how. You approach the PC, provide your resume, your diplomas/certificates, your bona fides (being a long time, seasoned examiner, available on weekends, evenings, with your own centrifuge, EKG machine, knowledge of the examiners scope), sample exams and EKGs and references. You get reference letters and reference e-mails from your agents and CSRs you have worked for in the past and keep them on file.

You name prices (not as high as you wish you could make, but higher than you have been getting. You agree to territory, turn around time, out-of-area fees. When the manager says, "I can't pay THAT!" You ask politely what s/he thinks is a fair rate. Then you raise it a little. You are not afraid to smile and say, "Sorry. I can't afford to work for that amount." You don't insult the manager, or laugh at or his/her rates no matter how ridiculous they are. You leave your packet (with copies of the above documents) and politely walk away.

After a rejection, you call a month or two later or drop a friendly note or email. I had a PC call me almost a year after my initial contact. Since then she has sent me a plethora of exams - at my asking rate.

That's how it works here in LA LA land.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:11 pm 
Hmm...

Most of us can't go a year without work :roll: PC's know this and use it to their advantage!
I am happy this worked for you but it is not the norm, I would bet on it ;)

Any other examiners care to weigh in?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:35 am 
Any contractor in any business will tell you that you need more than one customer! When I moved to a new area, I had to start all over. I researched ALL the PCs in my state and contacted all of them. Three were interested right off the bat. Six more have come along oveer the past couple of years. One is a national PC so I just gave them my new location and had work right away. It started slow, 3 or 4 exams a week - if that - for a few months. Meanwhile, I learned my new geography and I wasn't too worried because I kept busy making calls on agents, on agencies, as I learned my way around.

I did not wait a year for work. I was just saying that one of the PCs took that long to develop the relationship. Two of my direct agents just fell in my lap! I did an exam on a window cleaner and he washed the windows of an agent and told him about me. The agent contacted me and we've done business ever since. An agency that wasn't interested in me at first suddenly called me. Another agent got my name from a neighbor.

BTW, if you are out of work, out of money and living hand to mouth this isn't the job for you. I did exams when I was still working a regular job. When I retired, I just started devoting more time to doing exams. Started part time, worked it into full time.

People who are out of work and broke are the ones who will do exams for next to no money, thereby competing with seasoned examiners. But they soon find the work and the pay is too erratic and they stay broke.

Personally, I think the secret is to have another income at first, whether it's a spouse who works a regular job, or employment elsewhere, or a trust fund, or something. You wouldn't start a restaurant or a day spa, and expect to make a profet right off the bat if you were broke, would you?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:49 am 
Trouble is, there are so many examiners on this board who write nothing but profanity, whining and griping this cumming from the person who uses key board simbols to call people assholes. the queen of wining and complaints


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:55 am 
the queen of wining and complaints

You really think so? Yes, I use the keyboard symbols creatively, but to address individuals who have IMHO earned it, not to blanket an entire industry!

As a solo examiner I consider myself a businessperson. When a challenge arises, I look for a solution, one that I can be involved in. Hence joining NASCPE, but not expecting NASCPE to do what I should be doing for myself. When a solution works for me, I share it. When I need feedback I ask for it. (Some of it is helpful)

By the way - Angel


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:07 am 
Angel, I am glad you are apart of the NASCPE ;) Thats the first step but whats next?


I think of NASCPE as a meeting place for examiners who are willing to stand up and be the best at what we do. I would hope we could collectively agree not to work for certain companies unless they paid fairly for our services.

If you want the best you pay for the best, that should be the NASCPE motto.

I know there are cheap insurance companies out there that really don't care about quality let them go somewhere else, I want the insurance companies who realize there is a problem with quality and who are willing to pay to fix it.

I am also that examiner who never no shows, will go over and beyond to get information, gets paperwork out the same day, statuses regularly, always gets the blood.
I would like to be appreciated as the professional I have and always will be, but this will only happen if we as a group can reach insurance companies who are looking for this type of elite service, lets be honest some don't care and that's ok I'm just tired of doing business with them.

That's why I joined the NASCPE

Just my 2 cents

Lady79


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:47 pm 
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Posts: 83
M'Lady, I see NASCPE as providing the insurance industry a list of credentialled, seasoned examiners countrywide and marketing this list to ICs, agents and agencies. The examiners listed should be ready to accept directs (have their billing house(s) set up, supplies and equipment available) from the ICs/agents marketed.

I do not see NASCPE setting cost-for-service lists or performing billing. Costs-for-service lists would eventually bite us in the (_!_) because different ICs pay different rates and these fluctuate from time to time. It would take a dedicated staff to stay on top of them. I think we all agree that directs pay better than PCs. If I get $85 from an Aviva para, bl/HOS and only $57 from Lincoln National, so be it - for now. The list of examiners would be out there and hopefully agents would be marketed and would fall from the sky.

It would help for NASCPE members to carry cards with an 800-number and/or a website address to provide to area agents and agencies, thus marketing ourselves. NASCPE representatives could attend IC seminars, and get-togethers with a NASCPE booth and literature to provide.

I do not see NASCPE opening a billing house which would take a HUGE staff and cost a great deal of money to set up efficiently.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:31 pm 
Quote:
I do not see NASCPE opening a billing house which would take a HUGE staff and cost a great deal of money to set up efficiently.



Neither do I, I agree any examiner apart of NASCPE should have their own billing house set up. I also think as a group of credentialed, seasoned examiners countrywide we should be paid fairly, not accepting lower paying insurance companies, we could decide what is unacceptable and turn away that business as a group.

57.00 :shock: is probably not even worth a PC's time after they pay the examiner. With this pay we would be picking up a lot of scraps that the PC's don't want anyway. This would upset me because they are the ones who drove the prices so far down in the first place and when they relize they cant afford to service them anymore let the directs have them. hmmmmmmm?


Lady79


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:41 pm 
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M'Lady, I disagree. I think it is up to the individual to turn away lower paying work, or not. Often I will group a low paying U/A with a bunch of higher paying exams in the same geographical area and it works out. I won't drive 50 miles for saliva, but if I have a husband and wife para, bl, U/A, EKG in the same neighborhood and can do 2 urines on my way home, it all works out. See what I mean? Turning away work as a group would be like price setting and would rob individual examiners of the choice that should be theirs to make.

If an agent contacts a NASCPE examiner and hears "I can't make money on that because that IC doesn't pay enough" enough times, then s/he will take the low paying jobs to the PCs and let them handle it. In that way, the word will get out that certain companies don't pay shit. The PCs will stop marketing the low paying ICs and the IC industry will be forced to increase their payscale for exams.

The trouble with that scenario, though, is that there would always be NASCPE examiners who would set very high rates for themselves and refuse a great deal of work. That COULD give NASCPE a reputation for being an elitist group of examiners no one can afford, at least in certain geographical areas. I would hate to see that happen, but I would hate worse to have my rates dictated to me by an organisation I believe in.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:26 pm 
I use the keyboard symbols creatively, but to address individuals who have IMHO earned itwow, that's a pretty way to word it. so profanity is ok when you decide it's ok, but only for you, not the rest of us?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:58 pm 
Your words, not mine. Profanity has its place, but when it's used to blindly denegrate an entire industry and it's emplyees, it's no wonder representatives of the various PCs choose not to identify themselves, come aboard and share information and helpful suggestions.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:02 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:53 am
Posts: 120
Quote:
I would like to be appreciated as the professional I have and always will be, but this will only happen if we as a group can reach insurance companies who are looking for this type of elite service...
They all WANT elite service and most think they're entitled to it, they're just not willing to pay for it.
Quote:
I would hope we could collectively agree not to work for certain companies unless they paid fairly for our services
Quote:
different ICs pay different rates and these fluctuate from time to time. It would take a dedicated staff to stay on top of them.
That's about the only way it could work, if it was done collectively. I see what Stickler's saying but the whole reason we have the situation we have is because there isn't (and has never been) a united front, PCs nor examiners. I think price setting is exactly what we'd want to achieve. Set pricing would eliminate all these variables and obviate the need for a huge staff to keep on top of it. Why should pricing fluctuate in the first place? It'd be one thing if they fluctuated because of changing fuel prices or changes in kit fees, but that isn't the case. So what is the reason? I think it's because ICs know they can find PCs willing to undercut the others even more. What other reason adequately explains why AIG had 2 cuts in pricing which occured within a month or two of one another earlier this year?
Quote:
If I get $85 from an Aviva para, bl/HOS and only $57 from Lincoln National, so be it - for now
Why should anyone, PCs or examiners, think this disparity in pricing is reasonable or acceptable? Is an Aviva exam more work than a Lincoln National? Is a Lincoln National exam not worth as much because they don't ask as many questions? We all know the answer is no so why does it happen? Because there are PCs undercutting one another. If examiners said they were going to act collectively and refuse doing LN's exams until they matched Aviva's price, but then some of them took the $57, they'd be cheating their peers and the end result would be the same as what we have now. Frankly I don't understand why anyone in our business would be opposed to price fixing. If everyone pays the same amount for each service the playing field is level and the PCs have to compete on the quality of their work and the quality and skills of the examiners they hire. Experienced examiners would become more valuable to them and newbies less, as it should be.

Quote:
I would hate worse to have my rates dictated to me
What do you think has been happening all along? This is the way it's always been and will always be unless examiners find a way to change it. If I understood it correctly the $57 you mentioned was dictated to you, you didn't set that price. We are all having prices dictated to us, whether we're directs or subcontractors.

Price setting is already happening, they're just being set by the consumers instead of the providers.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Oh, my, you're up early, Cinny! Point is I would hate to have my organisation tell me I can't do a $15 urine rechecks on my way home from doing 3 Avivas.

It is the agents we will be dealing with, at least in the near future. They have no control over what their IC pays for exams. Even the MetLifes I do for regional agencies don't have a clue about my billing for examwork. They just contract it out - to me.

It the risk of sounding like a hand-to-mouth PC examiner newbie, there is no way I would tell one of my independent agents that I will do SOME of her exams, but not others because they don't pay ka-ka. If she were to send me a plethora of low paying exams, I would explain to her that they don't pay much and ask whassup with the higher paying ones. If she is farming them out to PCs, I would ask her for them and assure her they would get my top priority. If she is only selling the low paying product, I might consider dropping her. But it would be my choice.

Why do some ICs pay more and some pay less? Hell, I'd go to Sam's club for paper goods and kitty litter before I'd buy it at the supermarket. It has to do with volume, quality of product, and what they think they can get away with. (everyone will jump on this last, I'm sure)

I got an email from NASCPE today asking for my territory zipcodes and stating that I could be dropped from their examiner list if I turn down jobs. I won't turn down NASCPE jobs because, as we all know, directs pay more than PC work and I can afford to do them.

Anyone who, like me, does a mixed book of business (PC and direct work) knows that the directs get top priority. Most PCs are paying flat rate now, but some are still on %s. Anyone who is offered an unprofitable % rate job has the opportunity to "just say no". Anyone who is unhappy with their PC rates has the same opportunity. I contract with the big 5 plus a few others with the exception of a few who have been mentioned here in a bad light and some who just cannot of will not pay anything decent. One of the biggest mistakes an examiner can make IMHO is to depend on one PC for work.

That said, perhaps there will come a day when NASCPE is powerful enough to dictate or assign rates, but now is not the time, with too few members and not enough industry contact.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:49 pm 
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But it would be my choice.


It will always be your choice.

EXAMPLE: The union, they can't watch every guy and make sure they aren't shopping at Wal-Mart, but it would be frowned upon from their peers if found out, that's enough to keep most of them away as it should be.

Without all of us, or the majority of us putting our foot down change will never come.

Lady79


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:02 pm 
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No, M'Lady, it would not be my choice because if NASCPE were to set prices they would be turning away the lower paying exam orders and we would never know about them. Then if we recieve the low paying jobs later from a PC they would be paying even less - after the PC takes its cut.

Personally, I don't mind getting $57 for a Lincoln because it's a lot more than I would be getting if the job came from a PC. Then I thank my lucky stars for every Aviva and every Thrivent for Lutherans I get because that's gravy.

Cinny, as I have said before, I pick and choose my work. If I can't make money on a job, I turn it away. This does not necessarily mean turning away lower paying work. If there are 3 salivas to do on my way home from 3 para, bl, UA, EKGs, then I'm making more money instead of just driving home listening to a Clive Cussler book on CD and enjoying the scenery.

Price setting would take away potential work from examiners who like to cluster their work like I do. I say, just let NASCPE get the word out that we are available to do directs and let us do them. It is up to us to determine our area/zipcodes of availability.

BTW, Northwestern Mutual used to have their agents do salivas, but now they are requiring a para with each saliva, to be done by an examiner. Bear in mind that saliva kits expire inside of 6 months and do not stockpile, but make sure you have some CRL salivas on hand


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:23 am 
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Turning away work as a group would be like price setting and would rob individual examiners of the choice that should be theirs to make.

If an agent contacts a NASCPE examiner and hears "I can't make money on that because that IC doesn't pay enough" enough times, then s/he will take the low paying jobs to the PCs and let them handle it. In that way, the word will get out that certain companies don't pay shit. The PCs will stop marketing the low paying ICs and the IC industry will be forced to increase their payscale for exams.
Do you even listen to yourself? The PCs are the ones setting the prices so low. So you think that after being the ones who established the shit rates they're going to stop marketing these companies? Would you please explain your logic for that one?

You keep saying examiners shouldn't turn work away as a group, that the individual should be able to choose but how does that change things? As I see it, that's no different than the PCs undercutting each other and how's that working out for us?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:31 am 
i think lady is right on, everybody in or don't expect things to get better

angel, you need to understand your situation is different than everyone else and stop the nancy regan bs. just say no doesn't work for people who need the income

why's that so hard for u to understand


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:12 pm 
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Everybody who works needs the income! It's you, Guest, who doesn't understand. Yes, I agree about NASCPE Everybody in or everybody out. But in or out of what? I believe that, for now, NASCPE has the capability of compiling the names and territories of seasoned examiners and getting this information out to agents and ICs and should concentrate on doing so. So, NASCPE members, get your zipcodes into NASCPE. If you want a higher return than your present directs, narrow down your territory and your expenses will be less.

I have done the opposite, expanding my territory for NASCPE, knowing that even the lower paying ICs will pay me more than I would get from a PC after they take their cut. M'Lady and CIS argue that $57 for a para,bl,HOS is too low. Actually, my billing house only gives me 25% (taht's the $57) after thay re-bill it through E1. Were I to bill it directly through E1 myself, I might get more, but I don't want to bill through my local E1 for fear they would solicit my agents. My present billing house has never done that, but a former E1 has, so I accept the 75%, knowing I can hold onto my agents. Un re-billed directs return top $$ to me, so it works out. This is business. I am in business. I am my boss (and a really mean boss, at that) and my only employee. I make my decisions and I make my mistakes. I also make a profit, so it's working for me.

A PC would pay me $35 for the same $57 exam.

Yes, I have a pension and social security. That $$ goes in the bank in various forms or gets tossed to my kids, grown and in another state, as I see fit. I live and pay my bills on the $$ I make as an examiner. I have managed to pay for my share of our house, my car, my personal day to day expenses, my business expenses, with the money I make as an examiner. I am able to purchase a new car every 3 years, and go on vacation when I choose, all with $$ I make as an examiner.

I have a community college degree and a few certificates, that's all. I'm no smarter than anyone else here, but I do understand business and how to make it work for me. If I can do it, anyone on this board can do it. That is why I don't want my organisation setting prices for me.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:36 pm 
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It will always be your choice.
EXAMPLE: The union, they can't watch every guy and make sure they aren't shopping at Wal-Mart, but it would be frowned upon from their peers if found out, that's enough to keep most of them away as it should be.

Without all of us, or the majority of us putting our foot down change will never come.

Lady79


Like I said before it will ultimately always be your choice:)

Sooner then later we will have to stand united as a group and say no sorry that is just not enough for a experienced examiner or we as a group only will do packets for xx amount of money. IC's will pay for quality. Some are paying top dollar now and not getting what they deserve. When I mentioned "elite service" I meant become ONE learn from each other and make the IC's want to use only NASCPE certified PE's.
I think we should aim for being the best in the business new examiners should have to be "critiqued" not
Quote:
100 sticks, ok your a PE now, here's your bag good luck
:shock:

I feel NASCPE members should go through certain testing, mentoring, and ongoing training. I would be happy to pay for this type of training knowing that IC's are looking to use my services directly which would mean more pay.
NASCPE should be a group, that all PE's want to be apart of and all IC's want to use.

I don't want the NASCPE getting the scraps that the PC's can't afford or don't want to service anymore. We should not forget that we are good at what we do and should be compensated fairly.

Lady79


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:11 pm 
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M'Lady, can we agree to disagree? by now everyone knows my stand on price setting, so i will not repeat it nor the reasons for my opinion on this topic. For now, let's all recruit as many potential NASCPE members as we can and get our territory zipcodes in to NASCPE. And let's encourage NASCPE to get our names and territories out to agents and ICs.

Personally, I am excited to anticpate more directs coming my way!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:58 pm 
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M'Lady, can we agree to disagree?


agreed ;)

Lady79


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:05 pm 
watch out for mike boitel........he will scam you everytime.....remember what this post was all about......start at the beginning of the post :ugeek:


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